Interview - Dean Courtney (Part 1)

This is part one of an interview with Dean Courtney - August 1999  Go Directly to Part 2
Bernie When you were at school, you were at school in New York, what's your first memory?
Dean Actually I went to school in two places  I went to school in New York City and I went to school in Birmingham, Alabama.
BernieAnd whilst you were at school, did you have an interest in music?  Was music like a main line interest for you at the time?
Dean Yes, yes it was.  There was one singer in particular, and a couple more, and a guy named Ivory Joe Hunter.  I think I used to imitate all his songs because they were easy to sing, but they were like top records at the time and I had a favourite, a guy named Percy Mayfield  he made some really fantastic records and I later heard B B King, then later I got into Nat King Cole.  Nat was one of my favourite singers at that time, as well as Eddie Fisher, Perry Como and Frank Sinatra.  I used to like a lot of country music.  There was this guy, Eddie Dean.
Bernie Did this lead you into developing a professional interest in music?  Did you sing with a band in school concerts?
Dean No, I didn't start doing that until later, you know, when I was about, I guess, by the time I was around 14 or 15.
BernieDo you remember what was your first ever live gig?  And was that before you signed any record deal or after?
Dean Oh way before I signed any record deal, I started singing in places like the Apollo Theatre.  I used to go into some of the clubs and put my age up.  Sometimes they knew but it didn't really matter.  We did some places in New York, a place called Baby Grand.  I used to go singing there and places like Small's Paradise.  There were a lot of clubs in New York at the time and I remember when I used to get back to Birmingham my first live gig there was a place called Dubold's Old Stable and it was really a great place, it was actually a stable  it was huge.  It was pretty much in the heart of downtown Birmingham  a lot of big singers went there, but a lot of the local singers did sing there and you had to sing well.
BernieAnd was it at one of these places that you were noticed by some talent scouts for the record labels?
Dean No but there were talent scouts there.  Mostly there were Elvis Presley style singers, country and western style singers and stuff like that, maybe a Johnny Cash or someone like that would come there and they would allow a lot of the local groups there and I found out through a man called Clarence Kendricks, Eddie Kendricks's brother  I used to have a group with actually Paul Williams of the Temptations and Eddie Kendricks  they both had brothers that sing, so Johnny Williams and Clarence Kendricks and I had a group with another guy, John Wesley Gaines, who had been in The Cavaliers, because Paul Williams, Eddie Kendricks and a guy called Tommy and John Wesley Gaines and Kel Wallace, who later became Kel Osborne had a group called The Cavaliers, then they would sing in all the places.  They were a little older than us and we kinda followed them around and sing in the same places they would sing to see if we could best them or outdo them or something like that.  We really couldn't but we tried and that's how we got a lot of the gigs.  So I was singing in both places.  I would go to Detroit, there were places there I would sing because I knew a lot of singers.
BernieWould you be singing on your own there or with the guys?
Dean You know, if I was in Alabama I sang with the guys, when I wasn't there I was always singing alone cos I didn't have a group.  Sometimes I would sing with Paul and Eddie if Kel wasn't there.
Bernie So when you were singing with Paul and Eddie, would you actually be considered as one of The Primes?
Dean No, although they were actually The Primes then, the line up was Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams and Kel Wallace (later to become Kel Osborne).
Bernie When you joined them to sing, did you actually change from three members to four members?
Dean No.  No, if I did anything it was because Kel wasn't there. 
Bernie So what was the first record that you actually signed to?
Dean That was Mercury Records.  I was signed by Quincy Jones and Bobby Scott.
Bernie And there were no releases of any of your product on Mercury Records?
Dean No, we about finished an album there but we didn't release it.
BernieWas there any reason why they didn't release the product?  Was it because they had other artists or groups that they were concentrating on at the time?
Dean No it was because Quincy was leaving, going out to California and I think he was doing a lot of movie scores at the time.  Bobby Scott was leaving the company and I think even Shelby Singleton was getting ready to leave.  Bobby Scott said to me at the time, Do you want me to try and get you a release because we're going?  So I said yes, I mean because everybody I'm working with here is leaving, Ed Townsend and Lucie and stuff, they were working with The Charades at the time, I said yes because I had another offer anyway with RCA Victor and I went to RCA.
Bernie And straight into RCA from Mercury, you were recording fairly quickly.
Dean Yes.
Bernie Did you record, was it three singles on RCA?
Dean Actually there were three, there were two that were released and there was one that was set for release and I think the last release date they didn't do, not while I was at the company anyway.
BernieDid you ever record songs for an album at RCA?
Dean Yes I did. We just didn't release the album, just kept releasing the singles.
Bernie I did hear that there was an album put together at some stage during your time at RCA and it was shelved.
Dean Yes, yeah that would be right.
BernieAnd from RCA we then move to MGM.  Big labels, it's not the normal route for a lot of soul singers at the time.  I think perhaps the normal route was through little labels first and then sub-licensing and moving up.  How did you manage to get the big label deals?
Dean Just a blessing I guess!  Right place, right time, right contacts.
Bernie On the MGM product, on our Northern Soul scene we have Love You Just Can't Walk Away, Betcha Can't Change My Mind, both fairly big records, I believe there were also other tunes recorded for MGM.
Dean Oh yeah. 
Bernie One of the questions I want to ask you was that you were signed to major labels rather than small independent labels, were you actually signed directly to the label?
Dean Yes.
BernieSo there was no case of the productions that you did were sold to that label?  You were actually working directly for the label.
Dean Yes, the label paid for the sessions.  They allowed us to work independently, for instance, at MGM John T Mac Junior had been running The Charades, we were friends and we were writing music together so at RCA they allowed us to write and produce the music there, along with Bo Ray Fleming, John Mac and Ray Fleming were really the producers.  Even though the three of us worked in production, I was not seen as a producer, I was the artist they were producing.
Bernie Were you actually given targets from RCA?   For instance you would be signed to RCA, would you be signed for a specific period or a specific number of recordings?
Dean Whichever came first.  But normally it would be something like you sign for three years with an option, maybe one year.
Bernie And then would you be assigned to a team of producers, writers and so on?
Dean No.  We came there as a team, we all came together.  Actually the guy who gave us a deal at RCA Victor was a guy called Bob Cullen, so he had two artists, he had me and a guy called Wayne Newton and we were his only two artists there actually.  He was the one who really gave us the deal at RCA.  He came and he listened and he liked what we were doing and he gave us a deal.
BernieDuring the time at RCA, we've on from the Mercury side which didn't happen for various reasons into the MGM and then RCA.  Were you performing live at the time you were making the recordings?
Dean Yeah, quite frequently, you know because number one, we were doing promotional tours for the records that we had out and I was just appearing all over the country  a lot of DJ gigs especially, promoting singles so that the DJ's would play them.
Bernie You mentioned also that people tended to pick up on the 'B' sides of some of your records, We Have A Good Thing for instance which had My Soul Concerto on the 'B' side.  Would that have been played locally in just the New York area, or would that have had national play do you think?
Dean Not nationally but New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, that sort of circuit.
Bernie At the time, were there any specific radio stations, would it have been a black station or a pop station, or was everything combined?
Dean Pretty much combined, mostly I think the station that really broke records would be in New York, was WBLS and WWRL.  DJ's like Frankie Crocker, Al Jackson and all those guys.  Another guy, Herman Amos.
Bernie Okay, moving on from RCA, how long did you stay with RCA?
Dean You know I don't remember but I think it was going on 67, 68 because I think I signed with MGM in 68.
For part 2 click here.